Original vehicle from an engine number

[RayAbott]

Is it possible to find out the original vehicle which a particular engine was originally fitted into?

[Ian F]

Ray. I think you need to be a little more specific in your question. I guess you are talking about MGBs and the B series engines?
The first thing to say is that the specific engine number is listed on the relevant British Motor Heritage certificate for each MGB. I don't know whether it is possible to search the records by engine number, the usual way in is by the chassis number. BMH may be able to advise.
Secondly if you are looking at a more general search, it is definitely possible to use the engine number to narrow down the age and type of car originally fitted to. (Remember B series engines were fitted to lots of different makes and models). For the MGB, the B series started with specific prefixes(18GG I think) and ended with 18V. It would be easy to narrow down the age to within a few years. I can help if you givee the engine number?
Ian F

[George Wilder]

Useful information on engine numbers here https://www.mginfo.co.uk/upgrades4mgs/f ... umbers.pdf see page 4

MGB engines started with a G prefix eventually ending up with a 18V prefix. The info will also tell you if it is a non-MG engine.

The MGB build records at Gaydon are stored by car number (chassis number, today known as the VIN). Engines were not used ina sequencial order.

With an engine number the search for the orginal vehicle can be possible but it will cost if you want BMIHIT to do it for you. They can reduce a seach to a probable batch of cars from the engine number so you could go to Gaydon post Covid by appointment and do the search yourself.

[Ian F]

Thanks for the link George. There is one error which I picked up immediately, so perhaps there may be more?
The MK1 Midget also had a 948cc engine initially, coded 9CG. I know because I have one!

Ian F

[Peter Cresswell]

The chances of tracking down a specific vehicle from an engine number are no better than zero in reality. Engines have often been changed as a result of wear and another either bought or the original has been returned for a deposit to get the reconditioned one. As Ian says above, the type of car can be derived from the engine number (MG, Wolesley, Austin, Morris etc) but this number only really applies to the cylinder block, and all the other components and castings may have been attached to a different blocks over the years since the engine was first made. In days gone by when an engine was reconditioned the block will have been soaked in some pretty strong substances they frequently dissolved the engine number plate.

[RayAbott]

Thank you to all responders to date. To be more specific in answer to Ian. I have an MG BGT 1972. Original engine number as per the Heritage Cert I have was 18V-582-F-H/11205. ( fitted with twin HS4 carbs). I understand 582-F-H to be type 582 to UK spec (F) , High Compression (H).

In 1997 a replacement reconditioned engine suitable for unleaded fuel was installed. It has an engine number tag 18V 847 H 318 (picture attached if I work out how to do it!). I note it does not have the F.

According to the Leyland Workshop Manual, the 847-F was fittted to MGB GTs from 1972 but it had HIF carbs and not the HS4s my car still has. Question - when the engine was reconditioned did it loose the F because it was not to be refitted complete with HIF carbs so did not meet the then F specification or is there no connection to be made re carbs and spec?

And then to my original question, is it possible to trace the original vehicle to which this engine was delivered with?

[Ian F]

Thanks Ray. I will have a trawl through my records and see what I can find.

Ian F

[Ian F]

Ray, some initial results as far as I can tell:

1. It is an MGB engine as you had found.
2. From a later rubber bumper MGB, probably 1976 onwards.
3. The letter "F" indicates twin carbs, so possibly if the tag is original, this may mean it was a single carb engine destined for somewhere with stricter environmental regs.
4. 'H" indicates high compression.

That's all which comes readily to hand. Hopefully others will chip in some more,

Ian F

[Ian F]

There is some discussion here on the US. MG forum, sounds just like your engine:

https://www.mgexp.com/forum/mgb-and-gt- ... h.3856189/

Ian F

[Peter Cresswell]

Thank you to all responders to date. To be more specific in answer to Ian. I have an MG BGT 1972. Original engine number as per the Heritage Cert I have was 18V-582-F-H/11205. ( fitted with twin HS4 carbs). I understand 582-F-H to be type 582 to UK spec (F) , High Compression (H).

In 1997 a replacement reconditioned engine suitable for unleaded fuel was installed. It has an engine number tag 18V 847 H 318 (picture attached if I work out how to do it!). I note it does not have the F.

According to the Leyland Workshop Manual, the 847-F was fittted to MGB GTs from 1972 but it had HIF carbs and not the HS4s my car still has. Question - when the engine was reconditioned did it loose the F because it was not to be refitted complete with HIF carbs so did not meet the then F specification or is there no connection to be made re carbs and spec?

And then to my original question, is it possible to trace the original vehicle to which this engine was delivered with?

I am fairly certain that what has happened here is the engine reconditioner has taken a basic B-Series engine from their stock pile and rebuilt that. They will not have worried about the engine number or the origins of the engine. This they will have reconditioned (crank grind, rebore, new bearing and pistons) to MGB specifications and sold that. The owner at the time will have probably taken all the ancillaries off the original engine, and maybe even the cylinder head and flywheel, and exchanged the rest for the reconditioned engine as an over the counter transaction. The engine that was in your car will have then been put into 'stock', and used at sometime in the future when someone else needed a reconditioned engine. You also have realise that the various components of your engine may have come from several other engines, and similarly the components of the original engine in your car may have ended up is several other reconditioned engines. Many of the large reconditioners will split up the engines as the come into them, and keep a stock of blocks, cranks, heads, etc separately.
The reason you have the HS4 carbs is probably that was what was on the engine originally and they were retained by the owner at that time. The HS4 carbs are easier to tune and maintain than the HIF44 carbs, so look on those as being a bonus. Although some engine reconditioners offer complete (with manifolds, carbs, cylinder head, flywheel and clutch) ready to install engines, this is by no means common.

The bottom line is the engine number you now have is basically meaningless, and probably not worth the effort in trying to back trace the original car. If you wanted to correct the number on your engine, new engine number plates are available (part no. CRCP343 from Moss) and have it reversed stamped with your original engine number (see http://www.classic-plates.com/ for getting this done) and the rivets that attach are special one and very difficult to remove, but new ones are available (part No 2A895 from Minispares.com). Personally I wouldn't (and haven't) bothered, as it is more important to have a correctly performing MGB that worrying about an engine number.

Perhaps an important thing to check is that the car has an MGB Cylinder Head, as all the BMC B-Series cylinder heads are interchangable but the MGB head flowed better than the others. See here for details of how to identify them - http://www.flowspeed.com/cylinder-ident.htm